[10:49:04] *** Joins: vin-ivar (~vin-ivar@unaffiliated/vin-ivar)
[10:50:38] <inariksit> hi vin-ivar! are you coming to gf summer school in south africa?
[10:59:21] <inariksit> daherb: I ran into this yesterday, probably you've seen it but in case not, here's more proof that latin is totally relevant in the modern society! http://users.monash.edu/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html
[10:59:36] <inariksit> (well modern like 20 years ago or whenever it was made :-P)
[14:54:34] *** Joins: odanoburu (uid302941@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eucuyckojnvoqwso)
[15:06:02] <inariksit> hi odanoburu!
[15:07:21] <inariksit> I'm really liking the ma command in GF shell, here's one more use case
[15:07:47] <inariksit> I'm filling words into one of the super secret DG grammars, and some words are just participles of verb forms, but I don't remember exactly which form
[15:08:21] <inariksit> so I just type ma "blargh" and I get blargh_V :  s (PresPartAct (AN (NPossNom Sg)))
[15:08:55] <inariksit> grepping it wouldn't have helped, because the form is constructed by GF constructors, it never appears as such in any .gf file
[15:18:14] <odanoburu> inariksit: hello!
[15:18:38] <odanoburu> that's a nice use case! I've been using it quite bit since your post, it helps a lot!
[15:19:32] <odanoburu> although I think what I really would like would be something like `cc -trace`, but more concise..
[15:45:32] <inariksit> oh yeah cc -trace is ridiculously verbose
[15:45:46] <inariksit> or maybe I just work with complex languages :-D
[16:44:46] * inariksit found a bug in finnish verb constructor \:D/
[16:45:07] <odanoburu> it usually fills more than 10000 lines for Portuguese
[16:45:33] <odanoburu> so it gets useless for anything too far from the leaves
[16:46:14] <inariksit> haha yeah
[16:48:51] <odanoburu> how big a bug did you find??
[16:49:09] <inariksit> just about vowel harmony in one of the various non-finite forms
[16:49:43] <inariksit> there was a hardcoded "a" instead of the variable a, which can be either "a" or "ä"
[16:50:31] <odanoburu> oh, I thought bug was more like 'room for improvement' than actual error
[16:50:33] <odanoburu> nice catch!
[16:51:27] <odanoburu> I'm writing yet another GF tutorial to put in my thesis as background for the reader
[16:51:55] <inariksit> nice ^^
[16:52:06] <odanoburu> and I'm trying to understand why gluing is non-canonical in order to explain why a more natural design does not work
[16:52:23] <odanoburu> but maaaybe I'm getting too far ahead?
[16:52:54] <inariksit> haha yeah it sounds a bit advanced for someone who just learns about GF for the first time
[16:53:04] <inariksit> you can just say how abstractly beautiful it is ^_^
[16:53:10] <inariksit> no need to get into the dirty stuff
[16:54:45] <odanoburu> definitely, but how would I explain why not to write the grammar in what seems to be the easiest way..? just treat it as a black box? :/
[16:55:17] <inariksit> I thought inflection tables are the common way to think about things
[16:56:27] <inariksit> but also, gluing definitely has its place in GF grammars, just look at finnish, maltese, basque, ... RGs
[16:56:48] <inariksit> clitics are pretty common to attach with glue
[16:56:55] <inariksit> whole case infletion less so
[16:57:05] <inariksit> it's just a pretty new feature
[16:57:11] <inariksit> so lot of the old grammars don't have it
[16:57:18] <inariksit> do you have a particular example in mind?
[16:57:29] <odanoburu> I'm using dothraki numerals as an example !
[16:57:47] <odanoburu> I do use inflection tables in the actual grammar
[16:58:48] <inariksit> haha nice
[16:59:07] <odanoburu> but because dothraki is pretty regular I find it weird to build an inflection table in the digits like we do in English and Portuguese
[16:59:16] <inariksit> aha I see
[16:59:18] <odanoburu> but maybe I'm just overcomplicating things
[17:00:05] <inariksit> just look at this, and things can get pretty complex :-D http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/~ts/language/number.html
[17:00:31] <inariksit> but I think that numerals grammar is not the best example, it is very complex
[17:00:45] <inariksit> GF tutorials usually have some kind of "john loves mary" grammar as the first example
[17:00:46] <inariksit> or foods
[17:01:39] <odanoburu> jesus
[17:02:22] <odanoburu> yeah, I guess they can haha
[17:03:12] <odanoburu> in my defense, this is not my first example
[17:03:40] <odanoburu> I gave a very simple example first, where people would get the basics
[17:03:59] <odanoburu> then for the second I wanted to show a few quirks too
[17:04:44] <inariksit> aarne says that numerals grammar is from the 90s and it's quite weird
[17:05:14] <inariksit> "there's an explanation in the abstract syntax why they're called pot*, but it's not like a good name or anything" --aarne
[17:05:21] <inariksit> "nowadays we could make it much simpler"
[17:05:24] <inariksit> so that's your answer :-D
[17:06:28] <inariksit> also aarne says we can order a shuttle from the airport to stellenbosch
[17:09:53] <odanoburu> yeah, it seems pretty weird, but now that I got used to it I'm not so sure how to improve it :P maybe I should use that as an example ! haha
[17:10:30] <odanoburu> where's the explanation? I've wondered about pot* for so long haha
[17:12:13] <inariksit> exponentiation is called potens in some languages :-D https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potens
[17:17:05] <odanoburu> ahh, ok, even in Portuguese, but it hadn't occurred to me